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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: People In Glass Houses - Tanya Levin</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/</link>
	<description>A small house at the corner of Penury and Dotage.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Clare</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-8825</link>
		<dc:creator>Clare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-8825</guid>
		<description>Whether or not Tanya Levin's account of her experiences is totally accurate or not (and which one of us can vouch for a totally accurate memory?) there is, at least, no doubt that Frank Houston was guilty of multiple child sex offences (not visiting a prostitute, as the congregation was told at the time), and that Hillsong has never addressed either the problem of how to appropriately censure him (he still resided in a church-owned house until his death) or how to offer restitution to his victims.  Nor did they report the offences to the police, either in Australia or New Zealand (Houston committed offences in both countries).

Houston's offences were committed under the guise of anti-gay counselling.  One of his victims described it thus: “My counselling sessions… were nothing more than sexual abuse disguised in the form of the need of a father’s love and discipline. Through my naivety, I endured the naked beatings, the eternal bum caresses and masturbating into bottles, among other things. I look [back] at it now and think, ‘God, I was really naive to fall for that.’ ”

Levin's book is not simply the account of one person who had a bad experience at Hillsong.  It is an expose (falling far short of what there is to uncover) of immorality and manipulation rife in a supposedly moral organisation.  Right-thinking non-churchgoers have no doubt about how paedophiles should be dealt with - promptly, openly, and severely.  The church's failure to do the same simply shows that, for all their hype, they neither grasp nor practise the morality they preach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether or not Tanya Levin&#8217;s account of her experiences is totally accurate or not (and which one of us can vouch for a totally accurate memory?) there is, at least, no doubt that Frank Houston was guilty of multiple child sex offences (not visiting a prostitute, as the congregation was told at the time), and that Hillsong has never addressed either the problem of how to appropriately censure him (he still resided in a church-owned house until his death) or how to offer restitution to his victims.  Nor did they report the offences to the police, either in Australia or New Zealand (Houston committed offences in both countries).</p>
<p>Houston&#8217;s offences were committed under the guise of anti-gay counselling.  One of his victims described it thus: “My counselling sessions… were nothing more than sexual abuse disguised in the form of the need of a father’s love and discipline. Through my naivety, I endured the naked beatings, the eternal bum caresses and masturbating into bottles, among other things. I look [back] at it now and think, ‘God, I was really naive to fall for that.’ ”</p>
<p>Levin&#8217;s book is not simply the account of one person who had a bad experience at Hillsong.  It is an expose (falling far short of what there is to uncover) of immorality and manipulation rife in a supposedly moral organisation.  Right-thinking non-churchgoers have no doubt about how paedophiles should be dealt with - promptly, openly, and severely.  The church&#8217;s failure to do the same simply shows that, for all their hype, they neither grasp nor practise the morality they preach.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ryno Pen » Jesus doesn&#8217;t want me for a sunbeam</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3760</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ryno Pen » Jesus doesn&#8217;t want me for a sunbeam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3760</guid>
		<description>[...] since I posted about Tanya Levin&#8217;s People In Glass Houses, I&#8217;ve been getting visits from people with various [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] since I posted about Tanya Levin&#8217;s People In Glass Houses, I&#8217;ve been getting visits from people with various [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Ryno Pen » Sekai Mukwa: nonpareiled person of letters</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3142</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ryno Pen » Sekai Mukwa: nonpareiled person of letters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 17:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3142</guid>
		<description>[...] was originally a comment on the post &#8220;Book Review: People In Glass Houses - Tanya Levin&#8220;. Its divagatory scope, complexity and audacious reinterpretation of the norms of punctuation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was originally a comment on the post &#8220;Book Review: People In Glass Houses - Tanya Levin&#8220;. Its divagatory scope, complexity and audacious reinterpretation of the norms of punctuation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Ryno Pen » Faith Gets The Works - Part One</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3136</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ryno Pen » Faith Gets The Works - Part One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 13:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3136</guid>
		<description>[...] of all, let me bid a cordial welcome to my new reader, Seiki Mukwa, whose comment on a previous post has given me much cause for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of all, let me bid a cordial welcome to my new reader, Seiki Mukwa, whose comment on a previous post has given me much cause for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: sekai mukwa</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3135</link>
		<dc:creator>sekai mukwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 12:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3135</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Editor Note By Ryno: &lt;/strong&gt;This was a long comment, so I moved it into a &lt;a href="http://rynosseros.com/2008/05/14/sekai-mukwa-nonpareiled-person-of-letters/" rel="nofollow"&gt;post of its own&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Editor Note By Ryno: </strong>This was a long comment, so I moved it into a <a href="http://rynosseros.com/2008/05/14/sekai-mukwa-nonpareiled-person-of-letters/" rel="nofollow">post of its own</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: ryno</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3123</link>
		<dc:creator>ryno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 23:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3123</guid>
		<description>Note: Ms/Mr/Rev Dr (whatever) Mukwa tried to email me, but the content was deleted by spam filters.

Comments by the comment mechanism, please. I charge extra for the correspondence course.

&lt;strong&gt;Later: &lt;/strong&gt;Patience, Reader Mukwa. I have received your long reply, and am prepared to release it along with my commentary soon.
 Meanwhile, I have prepared &lt;a href="http://rynosseros.com/2008/05/13/faith-gets-the-works-part-one/" rel="nofollow"&gt;some light reading&lt;/a&gt; for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note: Ms/Mr/Rev Dr (whatever) Mukwa tried to email me, but the content was deleted by spam filters.</p>
<p>Comments by the comment mechanism, please. I charge extra for the correspondence course.</p>
<p><strong>Later: </strong>Patience, Reader Mukwa. I have received your long reply, and am prepared to release it along with my commentary soon.<br />
 Meanwhile, I have prepared <a href="http://rynosseros.com/2008/05/13/faith-gets-the-works-part-one/" rel="nofollow">some light reading</a> for you.</p>
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		<title>By: ryno</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3106</link>
		<dc:creator>ryno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 13:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3106</guid>
		<description>Dear Sekai Mukwa,
Of such little children as yourself is the kingdom of heaven, for whatever it's worth.

I trust you are well, and that the Borough Of Ealing is treating you kindly.

The "happy-clap thing" in Hillsong may just happen to be a purely human form of excitement, like many another party or concert. Your wishing it otherwise will make you sure it's otherwise, but then you may not have been given classes in building the excitement to bring this "holy" experience about. (I have.) 

The bible also mentions slaughtering a large number of animals in very bloody ways and burning lumps of meat in the place of worship, as well as funny ritual clothing, things not to eat or do, and many other rules. Are you going to pick and choose?

Tanya Levin either tells the truth and relates her experiences as they happened, or she is a liar: are you bearing false witness against her? The bible says that is not a good thing to do.

You defend Hillsong with guesses and conjecture, hoping with a childlike faith that none of the bad reports are true, yet you are not able to even guess accurately about the staff numbers and personnel structure.

&lt;i&gt;The fact that the music sells around the wolrd&lt;/i&gt;[sic]&lt;i&gt; means many christians like it.&lt;/i&gt; - and by this standard, toothbrushes, McDonald burgers and underwear are also sanctified?

Tanya has said in the book (you &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; read it, at least as well as you can, didn't you?) that she was and is a Christian. Of course, you may have some holy revelation to the contrary: if you prophesy falsely, though, you will be expected to stone yourself, so be careful.

&lt;i&gt;I give offerings freely without being forced and i believe in church&lt;/i&gt; [very sic indeed]. That's nice, dear, but by revealing this charity, you have gone against Matthew 6:2  &lt;i&gt;Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.&lt;/i&gt;

You have inspired me to post about some of my yet-untold past experiences with dodgy churches.

In the meantime you may wish to regale yourself with these recollections:
http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/14/the-truth-shall-set-you-free-rtfm/
http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/30/fathers-little-helpers/
http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/15/stretch-of-the-imagination/
http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/11/no-damn-way/
http://rynosseros.com/2007/07/29/dust-in-the-mighty-wind/

Thank you for your interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sekai Mukwa,<br />
Of such little children as yourself is the kingdom of heaven, for whatever it&#8217;s worth.</p>
<p>I trust you are well, and that the Borough Of Ealing is treating you kindly.</p>
<p>The &#8220;happy-clap thing&#8221; in Hillsong may just happen to be a purely human form of excitement, like many another party or concert. Your wishing it otherwise will make you sure it&#8217;s otherwise, but then you may not have been given classes in building the excitement to bring this &#8220;holy&#8221; experience about. (I have.) </p>
<p>The bible also mentions slaughtering a large number of animals in very bloody ways and burning lumps of meat in the place of worship, as well as funny ritual clothing, things not to eat or do, and many other rules. Are you going to pick and choose?</p>
<p>Tanya Levin either tells the truth and relates her experiences as they happened, or she is a liar: are you bearing false witness against her? The bible says that is not a good thing to do.</p>
<p>You defend Hillsong with guesses and conjecture, hoping with a childlike faith that none of the bad reports are true, yet you are not able to even guess accurately about the staff numbers and personnel structure.</p>
<p><i>The fact that the music sells around the wolrd</i>[sic]<i> means many christians like it.</i> - and by this standard, toothbrushes, McDonald burgers and underwear are also sanctified?</p>
<p>Tanya has said in the book (you <i>did</i> read it, at least as well as you can, didn&#8217;t you?) that she was and is a Christian. Of course, you may have some holy revelation to the contrary: if you prophesy falsely, though, you will be expected to stone yourself, so be careful.</p>
<p><i>I give offerings freely without being forced and i believe in church</i> [very sic indeed]. That&#8217;s nice, dear, but by revealing this charity, you have gone against Matthew 6:2  <i>Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.</i></p>
<p>You have inspired me to post about some of my yet-untold past experiences with dodgy churches.</p>
<p>In the meantime you may wish to regale yourself with these recollections:<br />
<a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/14/the-truth-shall-set-you-free-rtfm/" rel="nofollow">http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/14/the-truth-shall-set-you-free-rtfm/</a><br />
<a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/30/fathers-little-helpers/" rel="nofollow">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/30/fathers-little-helpers/</a><br />
<a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/15/stretch-of-the-imagination/" rel="nofollow">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/15/stretch-of-the-imagination/</a><br />
<a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/11/no-damn-way/" rel="nofollow">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/11/no-damn-way/</a><br />
<a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/07/29/dust-in-the-mighty-wind/" rel="nofollow">http://rynosseros.com/2007/07/29/dust-in-the-mighty-wind/</a></p>
<p>Thank you for your interest.</p>
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		<title>By: sekai mukwa</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3104</link>
		<dc:creator>sekai mukwa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 12:06:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-3104</guid>
		<description>I do not know exactly if Tanya's account is accurate as there was nothing with her. The happy clap thing she talks about is worship and biblical. The fact that the music sells around the wolrd means many christians like it. If you love God you love worship and its not about being hooked to it. Tanya may have heard bad experiences with people she dealth with but this may be an isolated issues that she cannot generalise. And baout the money churches fund upkeep of their ministries day to day. With possibly 19 000 plus people at Hillsong there maybe a few hundred staff employed as pastors and other admin tasks. Am not sure if Tanya is and was ever a chrictian otehr than just attending this Hillsong church. i ma a christian but do not work at church. I give offerings freely without being forced and i believe in church</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know exactly if Tanya&#8217;s account is accurate as there was nothing with her. The happy clap thing she talks about is worship and biblical. The fact that the music sells around the wolrd means many christians like it. If you love God you love worship and its not about being hooked to it. Tanya may have heard bad experiences with people she dealth with but this may be an isolated issues that she cannot generalise. And baout the money churches fund upkeep of their ministries day to day. With possibly 19 000 plus people at Hillsong there maybe a few hundred staff employed as pastors and other admin tasks. Am not sure if Tanya is and was ever a chrictian otehr than just attending this Hillsong church. i ma a christian but do not work at church. I give offerings freely without being forced and i believe in church</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew S</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-1460</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-1460</guid>
		<description>Dear Sir/ Madam, I am writing after being curious as to ask why no one has mentioned the 59 million plus that HILLSONG makes EVERY YEAR and where it all goes to? Someone is making a killing and it certainly isn't the kingdom of God or the common /or garden hillsong attender that's for sure! lol Yours Mr Matthew S

Ryno says:
Perhaps your questions would be better directed to people like &lt;a href="http://megachurchwatch.org/?p=36" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6707" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href="http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/2006/3_hinn.htm rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;.

For my part, I have abandoned the idea of churches. See &lt;a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/22/im-a-teapot-im-a-teapot/" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/14/the-truth-shall-set-you-free-rtfm/" rel="nofollow"&gt;especially here&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks for writing,
Ryno
(Still trying to have a small holiday from his blog)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir/ Madam, I am writing after being curious as to ask why no one has mentioned the 59 million plus that HILLSONG makes EVERY YEAR and where it all goes to? Someone is making a killing and it certainly isn&#8217;t the kingdom of God or the common /or garden hillsong attender that&#8217;s for sure! lol Yours Mr Matthew S</p>
<p>Ryno says:<br />
Perhaps your questions would be better directed to people like <a href="http://megachurchwatch.org/?p=36" rel="nofollow">this</a>, <a href="http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6707" rel="nofollow">this</a>, or <a href="http://www.skeptics.com.au/journal/2006/3_hinn.htm rel="nofollow">this</a>.</p>
<p>For my part, I have abandoned the idea of churches. See <a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/22/im-a-teapot-im-a-teapot/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://rynosseros.com/2007/10/14/the-truth-shall-set-you-free-rtfm/" rel="nofollow">especially here</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for writing,<br />
Ryno<br />
(Still trying to have a small holiday from his blog)</p>
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		<title>By: jon martin</title>
		<link>http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>jon martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rynosseros.com/2007/08/19/book-review-people-in-glass-houses-tanya-levin/#comment-197</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very interesting reading for an ex AOG boy. Having been out of the AOG for some years, and more recently attending a small AOG church in central QLD that was at that time without a pastor, the church seemed fairly normal &#38; uncomplicated, as preaching was done by lay preachers &#38; guest visitors. Surprisingly, this formula worked well.&lt;br /&gt;
This changed when a new pastor was installed &#38; some of the more odious "AOG"isms began to make themselves apparent.  That curious AOG institution called "membership" started being bandied about, the all too often misused word "submit", which can also lead to various forms of spiritual abuse, the lack of a healthy forum for people to question the words &#38; actions of their pastors, and an accountability mechanism in place for those pastors who do cross the line of acceptable &#38; appropriate pastoral guidance.&lt;br /&gt;
Quite simply, good leaders do not need to resort to heavy handed methods to get people to follow - it comes naturally.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At the end of the day, if your gut is telling you something isn't right - then go with it. There is plenty of good material these days on cults &#38; the various traits that make a cult, a cult. I would shy away from discussing concerns with other church members, as more often than not they will feel threatened &#38; may react adversely. Perhaps discussing with a trained counsellor (outside of your church &#38; denomination) or someone qualified to process your concerns with you is safest &#38; best practice. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lastly, never be afraid to ask questions &#38; to hold people up to the light. Your church &#38; pastors do not own you. This can be done in a non threatening, non reactive way - and their reactions will tell you if you're on the right track. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my most recent case, I simply made a decision that based on my observation of the new pastors style, and the way he used his position to get people into line, I would not subject myself to such unpastoral behaviour. I did not raise this with him or with leadership. I just stopped going.&lt;br /&gt;
I dont feel bitterness or any negativity towards these people - just very thankful that I know enough now to see the warning signs &#38; choose for myself.&lt;/p&gt;



&lt;blockquote&gt;Ryno says:
Thanks for your comments and balanced views, Jon.

I think you may have hit on a root cause of some of the "Charismatic Inc" problem in the above: the tendency to go all corporate/power structure. It certainly promotes an environment where almost-Pharisaical rules flourish, and tends to place emphasis on the less important matters of living out one's faith.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting reading for an ex AOG boy. Having been out of the AOG for some years, and more recently attending a small AOG church in central QLD that was at that time without a pastor, the church seemed fairly normal &amp; uncomplicated, as preaching was done by lay preachers &amp; guest visitors. Surprisingly, this formula worked well.<br />
This changed when a new pastor was installed &amp; some of the more odious &#8220;AOG&#8221;isms began to make themselves apparent.  That curious AOG institution called &#8220;membership&#8221; started being bandied about, the all too often misused word &#8220;submit&#8221;, which can also lead to various forms of spiritual abuse, the lack of a healthy forum for people to question the words &amp; actions of their pastors, and an accountability mechanism in place for those pastors who do cross the line of acceptable &amp; appropriate pastoral guidance.<br />
Quite simply, good leaders do not need to resort to heavy handed methods to get people to follow - it comes naturally.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, if your gut is telling you something isn&#8217;t right - then go with it. There is plenty of good material these days on cults &amp; the various traits that make a cult, a cult. I would shy away from discussing concerns with other church members, as more often than not they will feel threatened &amp; may react adversely. Perhaps discussing with a trained counsellor (outside of your church &amp; denomination) or someone qualified to process your concerns with you is safest &amp; best practice. </p>
<p>Lastly, never be afraid to ask questions &amp; to hold people up to the light. Your church &amp; pastors do not own you. This can be done in a non threatening, non reactive way - and their reactions will tell you if you&#8217;re on the right track. </p>
<p>In my most recent case, I simply made a decision that based on my observation of the new pastors style, and the way he used his position to get people into line, I would not subject myself to such unpastoral behaviour. I did not raise this with him or with leadership. I just stopped going.<br />
I dont feel bitterness or any negativity towards these people - just very thankful that I know enough now to see the warning signs &amp; choose for myself.</p>
<blockquote><p>Ryno says:<br />
Thanks for your comments and balanced views, Jon.</p>
<p>I think you may have hit on a root cause of some of the &#8220;Charismatic Inc&#8221; problem in the above: the tendency to go all corporate/power structure. It certainly promotes an environment where almost-Pharisaical rules flourish, and tends to place emphasis on the less important matters of living out one&#8217;s faith.</p></blockquote>
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